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Public Health (Alcohol) 2015

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Postby Saruman » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:12 am

Will_D wrote:
If you set a minimum alcohol unit price it will stop "below cost selling" and will NOT affect the price of decent drink in the offies. The cost of good beers/wines/spirits should not increase as a result of this BCS legislation.



I'm afraid that nothing could be further from the truth. Minimum pricing will have a knock on effect.
Think about it for a moment. The current average price for a bottle of Jameson or Paddy whiskey is about €24. Minimum pricing would see a €24 minimum price for spirits according to reports. That means that your €17 bottle of Aldi spirits will now be the same price as premium brands. Do you honestly think premium brands will not increase to differentiate themselves from the cheap stuff?

The same goes for every type of drink, beer included. It might even cause an artificial rise in the price of craft beer.
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Postby Will_D » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:44 pm

Saruman wrote:I'm afraid that nothing could be further from the truth.

Minimum pricing will have a knock on effect.
Think about it for a moment. The current average price for a bottle of Jameson or Paddy whiskey is about €24. Minimum pricing would see a €24 minimum price for spirits according to reports. That means that your €17 bottle of Aldi spirits will now be the same price as premium brands. Do you honestly think premium brands will not increase to differentiate themselves from the cheap stuff?

The logic also works the other way:

Why would I buy the cheaper brand for €24 when I can buy the real deal for the same price?

But let those government fekkers do their worst and let the market decide - as it surely will
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Postby johnrm » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:21 pm

It won't affect me.
I won't be buying cheap swill, nor will I be selling it.
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Postby sbillings » Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:28 pm

johnrm wrote:It won't affect me.
I won't be buying cheap swill, nor will I be selling it.


You're right, minimum pricing is designed so that it really only affects those who buy at the value end of the market; i.e. the poor.
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Postby CDow » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:06 am

I wonder will Leo and the neo-Prohibitionists take any notice of this

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 25441.html
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Postby Paz-CCFC » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:41 pm

Text of the full bill released today. What jumped out at me was section 10(12):

In this section, “sell” does not include

(a)sell by wholesale, or
(b)distribute free of charge.


So, pubs will still be allowed to give out free samples, which was a fairly big worry in this thread at the start. Good to see that something Beoir submitted to the government was listened to.

Also, people buying direct from breweries (I think it's a minimum of 3 x 24 33cl bottle slabs) won't be covered by the legislation. Although, no reason to think breweries won't raise these prices for individual purchasers given the artificial floor in retail price. They won't want to be hugely undercutting their retailers, either.
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Postby Saruman » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:24 pm

That's good. If anyone missed it (announced on twitter), I gave a response on the Last Word (Today FM) on the day it was announced.

You can listen here. I come in at 41:30 but the slot starts at 40 minutes if you want to hear listener comments to Leo's slot on the show.
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Postby TheBeerNut » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:58 pm

Paz-CCFC wrote:So, pubs will still be allowed to give out free samples, which was a fairly big worry in this thread at the start. Good to see that something Beoir submitted to the government was listened to.
I was pleased to see that too. And somebody else must have twigged that the concept of wholesale would also be a problem under the original proposal.

So, statutory notices in pubs declaring that drinking is bad for you. I'd imagine the LVA/VFI will have a bit to say when they consult on how that's going to look.

The calorific value to be printed on every bottle of beer in a country where many importers don't even bother with the ABV? Can't see that happening.

The enforcing body for all of this is going to be the HSE, but didn't Leo announce today he wants to split the HSE up into regional boards again?

And to deal with The Scottish Problem, we have this form of words throughout:
When making regulations the Minister shall take into account any expert research available to him or her on the effectiveness of including the matters referred to and shall have regard to—
(a) the rate of alcohol consumption,
(b) patterns of alcohol consumption,
(c) health-related risks caused by alcohol consumption,
(d) other societal harm caused by alcohol consumption, and
(e) such other matters as he or she considers appropriate.

Endless FOI fun there.
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Postby andrew » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:27 am

I am guessing that the sunrise clause didn't make it in.
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Postby TheBeerNut » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:37 am

Nope. :evil:
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Postby kenmc » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:22 pm

Planning:: Bad Friday IPA
Primary:: :(
Drinking:: Remains of xmas brew

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Postby Saruman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:34 pm

Yeah, we have been discussing it all over twitter. Sorry, I thought someone had already updated this thread.
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Postby TheBeerNut » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:29 pm

Great piece on The Journal about government claims that minimum unit pricing works, and what the evidence they rely on actually says. Link.
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Postby Tube » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:40 am

I wonder how many brown envelopes it took for the govt to favour MUP, where the price hikes don't go to the exchequer, but into the hands of big beer. The article says incorrectly that if the price hike was tax based that retailers could opt not to pass it on. They can't opt not to pass it on with cigarettes, so the same law can be made apply.

Personally I have no issue with jacking the price of a slab of shit beer and seeing what happens. If it produces verifiable results, great, if not, well the exchequer benefits anyway, just not with MUP as proposed.
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Postby TheBeerNut » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 am

The bill passed the Seanad yesterday and is expected to be signed by the President next week. In his concluding remarks Simon Harris says he intends to move straight ahead with the provisions as soon as possible. Health warnings and structural separation in off licences all have lead times of several years after commencement so we won't see them immediately and they have to be notified to the EU.

On minimum pricing the original government decision was to implement simultaneously with Northern Ireland but there's no prospect of that happening without an NI executive in place. This will be bounced back to cabinet for a decision on whether to go ahead anyway and I'd say they will.

Finally there was no mention of the existing provisions carried across from the 2008 Act, banning multi-buy offers and loyalty points on alcohol. Presumably they'll be staying dormant as before.
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