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Public Health (Alcohol) 2015

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Postby Tube » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:44 pm

We can sort it out in the car park of the Fran Well on Saturday either! :o ;)
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Postby baconsarnie » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:58 pm

A lot of draft legislation gets published and due to intended or in intended blind spots gets analysed/taken apart from people who may have greater insight or direct expertise.

In this instance we have very informed members with genuine concerns. We need to submit these and follow up to arrange a meeting with the minister & officials to raise our concerns as a membership organization (easily done). Failing that we lobby some TDs, get some PQs on record to clarify concerns & build some awareness on this.
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Postby mr happy » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:07 pm

Obvious answer of tasters is to charge for them. Maybe someone can set up a business making 100ml "taster glasses" and you can be charged 20% of the price of a full pint. I can't imagine publicans will mind. :D For brewery tours and tasting courses - I'm sure most of these already charge enough to cover the cost of any "free" drink already.

I'd not been aware of the Scottish ECJ referral but I wouldn't have thought it especially smart to introduce this legislation here ahead of a ruling on the Scottish legislation if there's a risk that a negative ruling might set a EU level precedent relevant to the Irish legislation.

Interesting blog post on a closely related topic over here.

https://zythophile.wordpress.com/2015/0 ... l-pricing/
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Postby Ciderhead » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:19 am

sbillings wrote:
Ciderhead wrote:I'm sure the will be an ammendment to cover commercial samples.


I don't see why you are sure about that. Have you heard anyone in power mentioning such an amendment?

I would imagine this will be dealt with like much of Irish law; through the magic of selective enforcement. As long as no one makes a hooha about it and no one takes the piss, samples etc. will be quietly ignored even if they are technically illegal.


This morning myself and a couple of local commercial interested parties contacted our TD and Minister for State Simon Harris. I've had several dealings with him over the years and all ended with positive outcomes.
I understand people's frustration with government, but unless you lobby your representatives and government which Beoir aren't at present we can't throw stones.
We had it confirmed that its pretty much what TBN was saying earlier today "It's very early in the formulation of the legislation process"
So if anyone here does want to do something about it make a start and email your local TD.
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn ... ument1.htm
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Postby baconsarnie » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:23 am

Fair play ciderhead. I think if we could agree a collective Beoir position it would allow the same message to be raised locally with our TDs & raise our profile. In conjunction with the local lobbying a Beoir delegation to the Dept would be useful
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Postby oblivious » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:59 am

baconsarnie wrote:Fair play ciderhead. I think if we could agree a collective Beoir position it would allow the same message to be raised locally with our TDs & raise our profile. In conjunction with the local lobbying a Beoir delegation to the Dept would be useful



Would than not be a role lead by the PRO?
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Postby baconsarnie » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:21 pm

oblivious wrote:Would than not be a role lead by the PRO?


Could be or it could be done online by a group of intersted members and then who is best placed to arrange & meet Minister & officials

Could be done over some pints.... :D
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Postby Will_D » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:12 pm

Rather than some of us writing our own (not always logical or covering all salient points)letters could our PRO provide us with a letter to be sent to TDs/Senators covering our points of concern. That way all important issues would be covered then we as Beoir and the NHC can let our politicans know how we feel?

Also if there was a standard letter the numbers of mails sent out would be much greater than expecting the individuals to write their own.

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Postby baconsarnie » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:57 pm

See other thread on members section
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Postby CDow » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:31 pm

Interesting article from England

https://zythophile.wordpress.com
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Postby TheBeerNut » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:12 am

It'll be autumn at least until we see the first full draft of the bill. Link.
In a statement on Thursday the Department of Health said that “due to the breadth and complexity of the measures, drafting continues over the summer”.
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Postby Saruman » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:45 am

As expected, Scotland have essentially been told no.
The advocate general to the European court of justice, Yves Bot, has said fixing a legal price for all alcoholic drinks could only be justified to protect public health if no other mechanism, such as tax increases, could be found.

More in this article.
It is highly likely the ECJ in Luxembourg will now uphold complaints from the Scotch Whisky Association (SWA) and nine other member states, including France, Spain and Bulgaria, because its judgments rarely contradict an opinion from the advocate general.


This has a number of implications. Ireland, ever the sheep to the UK now has a number of options.

1. Give up on minimum pricing and say we tried.
2. Increase duty.... again!
3. Bring back the groceries order, at least for alcohol.

Option 3 is my preference. Below cost selling is hurting independent off-licences like our good friends in Drinkstore and many others around the country.

It's not perfect of course. Dodgy invoicing can see the cost to supermarkets made artificially low to allow them to get around a below cost selling ban but that can be dealt with by using proper scrutiny.

Ideally, the government would take a more pro-active approach by targeting problem drinking as socially unacceptable. A bit like they did with littering and drink driving, although the latter required severe punishment and the former did require a sort of tax on supermarket bags to get it started.

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Postby kenmc » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:47 pm

Planning:: Bad Friday IPA
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Drinking:: Remains of xmas brew

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Postby Saruman » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:51 pm

Yeah, I started a thread in the Beoir members forum on it too.

To be specific, Europe hasn't said no. The advocate general suggested a no but it should amount to the same thing in the end.
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Postby CDow » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:19 pm

CopOn 1 - 0 Neo Prohibitionists
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