It is currently Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:02 am
   
Text Size
Login

Closing the Gate

Introduce yourself in here, or just chat about anything that comes into your head.

Postby oblivious » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:54 am

sbillings wrote:
another load of family unfriendly one bed apartments, at a high coast.


That is a possibility, but unlikely. Planning regulations are not the only factor which influence what is built on a site.


True, but they city can be planned to accommodate people, An Bord Pleanála/Dublin county council can make it a condition of the application to provide playground areas/ schools and certainly advise to make the room density bigger.

A well known developer Mick Wallace has openly condemned a lot of the apartments built around Dublin because they have not been planed to accommodate families, unlike a lot of European cites.
"If anybody says he can think about quantum physics without getting giddy, that only shows he has not understood the first thing about them." - Niels Bohr

Primary: Black IPA
Keg:Summit IPA, White IPA (US05), Cider, Citrus Saison,

Twitter.com/Oblivious_

*Now with Blog* oblivioustobeer.blogspot.com
User avatar
oblivious
Beoir Member
 
Posts: 5143
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:08 am
Location: The wild west, Dublin

Postby Poc » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:31 pm

Diagio will move the factory and sell off the land if they think they can get away with it. They'll do the sums in their head and they'll come out some thing like this:

€700m in the bank, less €150m to set up in the sticks.

They'll reckon on losing whatever percent in sales in the first 6 months while there is a Bewley's style wringing of hands and half-arsed protests about "losing our heritage", then the 2%-3% that they'll be down yearly.
User avatar
Poc
 
Posts: 455
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:30 pm

Postby kenmc » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:41 pm

Unfortunately thats probably exactly how it will pan out.
Planning:: Bad Friday IPA
Primary:: :(
Drinking:: Remains of xmas brew

I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a drunk.Alcoholics go to meetings
User avatar
kenmc
Beoir Member
 
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby Ichiban » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:19 pm

In a British Tesco's two weeks ago I bought a Guinness multi-pack of beers, included with it was a pint glass with the Guinness name and logo. What I found unusual was the 'Made in Dublin' tag on it. I usually see something along the lines of 'St. James Gate', 'Straight from the Gate', or something similar. It makes sense now, especially if they were moving locations but staying within the county boundries. Perhaps this is how it's always been written on British glasses though, don't know.

I heard recently that the Guinness brewery tour is the most visited tourist attraction in Ireland. I wonder if folks will go to Balbriggan to see it?!!
User avatar
Ichiban
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:52 pm

Postby sbillings » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:24 pm

You don't get to tour the brewery anyway. I would imagine that they will keep the Guinness storehouse as it is.
Fermentor: Blond.
Conditioning:
Serving: Belgian Ale (4% Vol.), Dark Belgian Quad (10.5% Vol).
User avatar
sbillings
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3569
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:08 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby DrJohn » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:34 pm

I heard recently that the Guinness brewery tour is the most visited tourist attraction in Ireland. I wonder if folks will go to Balbriggan to see it?!!


It never seems to make any difference to the Heineken Experience in Amsterdam. Heino hasn't been brewed there for years, but it continues as a succesful tourist venue. Anyhow, the Guinness Storehouse doesn't have a whole lot to do with brewing.

The whole idea seems to make economic sense. What else matters? At least to Diageo.[/quote]
User avatar
DrJohn
Site Admin
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:04 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby TheBeerNut » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:43 pm

And tourists still flock to the "Old Jameson Distillery" where they haven't made any whiskey in decades.

Diageo in the UK began talking up the "Made in Ireland" aspect of Guinness when Park Royal closed and, for the first time in many years, English Guinness was actually made in Ireland.
User avatar
TheBeerNut
Beoir Member
 
Posts: 11079
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby kenmc » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:50 pm

Not being remotely interested in whiskey, I'm way out of my depth here, but does Jameson really have a similar iconic status to Guinness? Is it not "just another whiskey" as opposed to being the "most famous stout"?

And is the distillery really a big attraction? I don't even know where it is, and I have never had any of my visitors ask for it, nor have I ever recommended it to anyone! :oops:
Planning:: Bad Friday IPA
Primary:: :(
Drinking:: Remains of xmas brew

I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a drunk.Alcoholics go to meetings
User avatar
kenmc
Beoir Member
 
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby TheBeerNut » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:59 pm

kenmc wrote:Not being remotely interested in whiskey, I'm way out of my depth here, but does Jameson really have a similar iconic status to Guinness? Is it not "just another whiskey" as opposed to being the "most famous stout"?

It's "the most famous Irish whiskey" as opposed to "just another beer". :) Guinness and Jameson are both global Irish brands, and have a pulling power based on that.

kenmc wrote:And is the distillery really a big attraction? I don't even know where it is, and I have never had any of my visitors ask for it, nor have I ever recommended it to anyone! :oops:

The "Jameson Irish Whiskey Experience" is on Bow Street, next to Smithfield, quite near where I work. I meet lots of tourists looking for it, and coach tours being led to it. It only recently re-opened after refurbishment. The actual whiskey is made in Middleton.
User avatar
TheBeerNut
Beoir Member
 
Posts: 11079
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby Ichiban » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:06 pm

You're right actually, all they need to do is to keep the 'Storehouse' as a tourist spot and move the operation elsewhere. They might even be able to hold onto the original St James Gate too, the Storehouses new location even.
User avatar
Ichiban
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:52 pm

Postby kenmc » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:10 pm

TheBeerNut wrote:The "Jameson Irish Whiskey Experience" is on Bow Street, next to Smithfield, quite near where I work. I meet lots of tourists looking for it, and coach tours being led to it. It only recently re-opened after refurbishment. The actual whiskey is made in Middleton.

Thats handy to know, given I have some Ozzie visitors at the moment! Thanks for that! :D
Planning:: Bad Friday IPA
Primary:: :(
Drinking:: Remains of xmas brew

I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a drunk.Alcoholics go to meetings
User avatar
kenmc
Beoir Member
 
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby Fishamble » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:22 pm

If it happens, I'll miss the smells from James's Gate, but not much else. I would agree with Sean's comments about the barrier to social integration that it presents. I think that it's more than coincidental that poor unfortunate tourists who take the wrong road from the Storehouse take their lives in their hands. I know this from personal experience having worked in the Guinness Enterprise Center for a number of years.

I'd put a hefty bet on the Storehouse remaing. But I'd be less cynical than some regarding what would replace the rest of the brewery. The developers are out for what they can get for sure, but there are quite strict rules now about what's acceptable and they're often specific to certain areas. I live next to the John Player site, where they wanted to put a 28 story building and nigh on 1,000 apartments. You can see plainly where the developers have tried to impress the planners with their social conscience and awareness, and the planners push back using documented rules. Of course you have to accept that the density of accommodation in Dublin must increase.

So while there'll surely be bitter pills to swallow, it will probably be a good thing for that area on the whole.

And will tourists still visit the Storehouse in their droves? Abso-f***ing-lutely.
User avatar
Fishamble
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby oblivious » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:15 pm

Fishamble wrote:You can see plainly where the developers have tried to impress the planners with their social conscience and awareness, and the planners push back using documented rules.


Not sure what you mean?
"If anybody says he can think about quantum physics without getting giddy, that only shows he has not understood the first thing about them." - Niels Bohr

Primary: Black IPA
Keg:Summit IPA, White IPA (US05), Cider, Citrus Saison,

Twitter.com/Oblivious_

*Now with Blog* oblivioustobeer.blogspot.com
User avatar
oblivious
Beoir Member
 
Posts: 5143
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:08 am
Location: The wild west, Dublin

Postby Fishamble » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:36 am

Yeah, sorry, that wasn't very clear. The developers were making a big thing of providing playing fields, shopping, restaurants, a school, a medical centre, gyms and even a climbing wall for some reason. It seemed generous, but in reality it was keeping to the city planners' rules. There were many other things - density, height and quality of apartments, for example - that the council pushed back on.

So, while far from ideal, the planning regulations do seem to steer new developments from the worst instances of the past.

(Sorry, can't think of a way of bringing beer into this comment. :? )
User avatar
Fishamble
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby oblivious » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:56 am

Fishamble wrote:Yeah, sorry, that wasn't very clear. The developers were making a big thing of providing playing fields, shopping, restaurants, a school, a medical centre, gyms and even a climbing wall for some reason. It seemed generous, but in reality it was keeping to the city planners' rules. There were many other things - density, height and quality of apartments, for example - that the council pushed back on.

So, while far from ideal, the planning regulations do seem to steer new developments from the worst instances of the past.

(Sorry, can't think of a way of bringing beer into this comment. :? )


Unfortunately I have seen this happen, developers “plan” for these, but the land is usually held up for years, the house or apartment get build and then they want massive money for small plot to put a school on.

Or they zone the playing fields/ playground as community area (which is anything from a dump, prison, school and such), but hold it up for a few years about what the final use for it will and then look for the community to cough up 1 million euro or it revert back to the developer, who will most likely get permission to re zoned and build on it.

The worst was the developer was selling a plot of land for a school, when the school was applying for planning permission to put some prefabs on the site. As they were sharing a site with three other school! The developers put in objection and got the prefabs blocked, then built apartments on part of the land and sold what’s was left to Fingal county council for 6 million.

But I do agree the height limitation in the city will have to be increased
"If anybody says he can think about quantum physics without getting giddy, that only shows he has not understood the first thing about them." - Niels Bohr

Primary: Black IPA
Keg:Summit IPA, White IPA (US05), Cider, Citrus Saison,

Twitter.com/Oblivious_

*Now with Blog* oblivioustobeer.blogspot.com
User avatar
oblivious
Beoir Member
 
Posts: 5143
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:08 am
Location: The wild west, Dublin

PreviousNext

Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 3 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 135 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:51 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Login Form