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Hefeweizen - step mash or not?

For those of us brewing with malted barley, as opposed to malt extract. It's not as hard as it sounds, so why not give it a go? The mash tun beckons.

Postby ciaran » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:34 pm

I'm planning my first hefeweizen. I know that the "right" way to do it is decoction but that's not an option.

From what I can find, the right water and right yeast seems to be more important than the mash-profile.

Can anyone convince me that I need to step mash? Otherwise I'm going to be lazy and do a single infusion (OK, maybe a mash-out step)

Anyone tried a single-infusion weizen with disastrous results?
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Postby Biertourist » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:19 pm

It depends what flavors you want out of your hefe. If you like a banana-forward hefe then a single temp infusion (assuming you're using malted wheat) will be ok.


A traditional German hefe grist is just SCREAMING for a 2 step mash with a protein / 4 vinyl guiacol rest and a normal saccrification rest for a few reasons.

The first reason is that if you're doing a 50% wheat malt hefe you're going to have a HUGE quantity of protein and you're starting with high molecular weight proteins that cause haze (not that that's an issue in a hefe); if you do the protein rest (15 min) you can also over lap the temp with a 4 vinyl guiacol rest which will help boost the clove flavors that you'll get later. (Although this has a much smaller impact than the protein rest.)

Some folks would argue to mash in super thick at beta glucan rest temps because the wheat has higher beta glucan quantities but I WANT the beta glucan mouthfeel in a hefe and I wouldn't dare try to degrade those beta glucans.

Add rice / oat hulls if doing a 50/50 wheat barley hefe to avoid a stuck mash.


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Postby Biertourist » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:31 pm

I didn't finish on idea there.. The point of the protein rest is to break down those high molecular weight proteins into medium weight polypeptides that help form beer foam and to further break down some of them into amino acids which help yeast nutrition.


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Postby nigel_c » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:38 pm

Ideally what would be your perfect heff recipe and mash schedule?
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Postby Will_D » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:50 am

nigel_c wrote:Ideally what would be your perfect heff recipe and mash schedule?

I was just about to ask Adam the same question!

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Sec Fermenting:..LaTrappe Dubbel, AG Pilsner, Aventius AG Clone
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To Brew:.........HoorsLite, Hefe Dunkel, Dark Pilsner
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Postby ciaran » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:27 pm

Adam, thanks for the tips. I'd promised to introduce some colleagues to the wonderful world of brewing and they insisted that their first beer should be a hefeweizen. To keep things simple, I went with the single infusion mash. Also I adjusted the grist to 60/40 barley/wheat to make sure we had no problems with stuck mash. The style police might be after us but I'm hoping it'll resemble the real thing anyway. We're definitely smelling those bananas.
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Postby Biertourist » Wed May 01, 2013 8:36 pm

Will_D wrote:
nigel_c wrote:Ideally what would be your perfect heff recipe and mash schedule?

I was just about to ask Adam the same question!

With summer just round the corner needs the HW coolers!


A 50/50 Lager Malt, Malted wheat blend for the grist(hefes use MALTED wheat, unlike Belgian Wit beers).
Wyeast 3068 strain with a proper sized starter and 68F fermentation temps (the Weihenstephaner hefe strain).
-I like 68F because I want more banana than clove; if you like an even balance of clove and banana 62F like AJ recommends is more ideal.

For the mash instructions I'll yield to AJDelange's advice for a traditional hefe:

"I dough in a 99°F for a ferulic acid rest, step to 122 for a protein rest, then raise to 127 and pull the first decoction. That goes to 160 F for 10 min or so and is then taken to the boil where it is held for about 20 min. Returning the first decoction should get the rest mash up to 147 °F. I hold there for 10 min or so and then pull the second decoction. It is also raised to 160 and held for 10 min before being brought to the boil and boiled for 10 min. Returning that to the main mash should raise it to 158 °F where I hold for 10 or so minutes more before taking it to 172 °F for mashout. I've been using this for so long that I don't really remember how I came up with it but I am almost certain that I got it straight out of Eric Warner's wheat beer monograph in the AHA series. If you use the Weihenstephan 68 strain (Wyeast 3068) and ferment it at about 62 °F this can be a really great beer.

I measure pH at dough in, at every temperature step, after the return of each decoction and in the fermenter."

" the secret is in the 160 °F rests within the decoctions. This is letting alpha amylase go to work without denaturing the beta amylase most of which is back in the rest mash. With 2 decoctions of 40% each 64% of the malt would get the 160°F rest as opposed to 40% if you only do 1 decoction. I'm sure a single decoction would produce a fine beer but the double might produce one a little finer."

"In a triple decoction the purpose of the third is solely to denature the enzymes and so you want to make sure no starch is released. Hence, you make sure there is no starch to release and make this decoction liquid only. Note that not only is the liquid boiled denaturing any enzymes it contains but when returned it should bring the rest mash up to mashout temperature."

"In this double decoction the second decoction, when returned, brings the temperature up to 158 - below mashout temperature. Therefore, you do not worry if a bit more starch is released. This second decoction is, while somewhat thinner than the first, still reasonably thick."



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Postby EoinMag » Thu May 02, 2013 9:46 am

From the German website Hobbybrauer.de

Hefe:
obergärig: WLP® 300 (alternativ: 351)
Stammwürze:
13,4 %
Hopfenbittere:
14 EBU
Bierfarbe:
20 EBC
Alkohol:
5,5 Vol.-%
Schüttung:
3000 g Weizenmalz hell
850 g Pilsener Malz
1100 g Wiener Malz
350 g Caramalz Pils
15 g Farbmalz
3-stufiges Infusionsmaischverfahren:
Einmaischen: bei 40 °C
1 Rast: 20 Minuten bei 50 °C
2 Rast: 60 Minuten bei 65 °C
3 Rast: 10 Minuten bei 73 °C
Abmaischen bei 76 °C
Kochzeit:
90 Minuten
Bitterung:
Aromahopfen Saazer (alternativ: Spalter oder Tettnanger)
in 2 Zugaben:
67% nach Kochbeginn, 33% vor Kochende

Yeast:WLP300 or alternative 351
OG:13.4 deg plato
Hop bittering:14EBU
Colour:20EBC
Alcohol %:5.5
Grist:
3KG Weisen malt
850g Pils malt
1.1KG Vienna malt
350g Caramalz pils
15g Black patent
3 step infusion mash
mashin 40C
first rest 20 mins at 50c
second rest 60 mins at 65C
third rest 10 mins at 73C
Mash out at 76C
90 mins boiltime
Bittering:
aromahops saaz or alternatively spalter or tettnanger in two additions 2/3's at start of boil 1/3 at end of boil, so a flameout addition.

I hope that helps, from the horses mouth so to speak.

It's also listed as a Bavarian Hefe.

There is no such thing as a Heff.....unless it's a bird you pulled in a nightclub in Roscommon.....
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Postby Biertourist » Thu May 02, 2013 11:44 pm

Eoin, I know it came from a German website but that's definitely not close to a traditional hefe recipe. (It is super interesting to see a modern German home brew recipe, though.)

Why the heck would they include black patent? That's odd...

I WISH I could buy Spalter hops somewhere...

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Postby EoinMag » Fri May 03, 2013 7:54 am

They use what they call farbmalz, the closest translation is patent.
At 15g it's a colour addition sinamar would possibly be more appropriate.

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Postby Biertourist » Tue May 07, 2013 5:43 pm

EoinMag wrote:They use what they call farbmalz, the closest translation is patent.
At 15g it's a colour addition sinamar would possibly be more appropriate.

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Yep, I'm still tracking with you. But WHY would you use ANY black malt in a normal hefe? (Not a dunkelweizen, but a "lichtes hefeweizen") It's supposed to be light-colored and any roast character is outside of it's character.

It's just weird; I wonder if they're trying to get closer to the color that you'd get from a decocted hefe while just doing a simple infusion.


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Postby TheBeerNut » Tue May 07, 2013 6:35 pm

I seem to remember reading there's some black malt in Schneider-Weisse. I guess it's to recreate that old-fashioned, unscientifically-kilned character.
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Postby EoinMag » Thu May 09, 2013 10:08 am

Biertourist wrote:
EoinMag wrote:They use what they call farbmalz, the closest translation is patent.
At 15g it's a colour addition sinamar would possibly be more appropriate.

Sent from my SGPT12 using Tapatalk 2


Yep, I'm still tracking with you. But WHY would you use ANY black malt in a normal hefe? (Not a dunkelweizen, but a "lichtes hefeweizen") It's supposed to be light-colored and any roast character is outside of it's character.

It's just weird; I wonder if they're trying to get closer to the color that you'd get from a decocted hefe while just doing a simple infusion.


Adam


From what I can gather the author of the recipes is a guy called Klaus Kling who wrote a few books in the vein of Graham Wheeler, so no more than his attempts to emulate British styles, they are not all 100%, but accepted enough by the German homebrewing community to take them as gospel.
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Postby Borstel » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:54 am

I made this Weizen twice and it comes very close to a Schneider Weisse. I only do one step mash + one decoction. For the Farbmalz I used CARAFA SPECIAL 3
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